What do you think about Motorsport Engineering Degree Programs?

"kevinafrica" (kevinafrica) 07/02/2014 at 18:09 • Filed to: None

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I just separated from the U.S. Navy and am actively looking for job opportunities. I have a couple good leads and expect to find a job by at least August. The problem is that most of those jobs just don't excite me. The thought of 9 to 5 at a desk dealing with tasks created for the sole purpose of filling those eight hours makes me apprehensive. And the reality of not pursuing my interests is not something I want to face anymore.

So I looked into Motorsport Engineering programs, with the thought of possibly being an F1 or Le Mans engineer. A quick google search of, "motorsports engineering university UK" gives several results such as:

http://www.city.ac.uk/courses/underg…

http://www.brunel.ac.uk/courses/underg…

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My question is: does anyone have any experience with these programs or know anyone that does? And how likely is one to find a job in pro motorsports with just this degree? Is it worth the time and money? Thanks Oppo!

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 18:14

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wait... Those exist!?

Now I'm depressed.

Go for it if you'd think it be awesome, and I would bet it would be. All I want out of a job is the feeling that I want to continue working when its time to leave; hopefully you'll find that.

That's Engineering? > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 18:15

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I would love to know how to get into motorsports in general, having just graduated in mechanical engineering and currently perusing my Masters. This is, somewhat ironically, from a school that focuses a lot of vehicle techonolgies, but, to my knowledge does not have a graduate working in Motorsports.

PatBateman > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 18:18

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No earthly idea, but I have a suggestion for you:

Look up the lead engineers for about five different F1 teams. Call them at work. I know this seems audacious, but give your story (recently retired from the Navy, have some genuine questions, I'd greatly appreciate a couple minutes of your time, etc). Ask them directly, as they'll be the ones who would know best.

You'd probably get to speak to 60% of them. Being a veteran that is extremely interested in joining their field can get you those conversations.

Lemonhead > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 18:25

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Clemson University

http://www.clemson.edu/ces/automotive…

Not a finer university on the planet. You will have an awesome experience. (I'll admit my prejudice, I'm an alumni).

Vi517, JDX Racing > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 18:29

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I've researched this a little before. In the US, there are very few schools that offer motorsport engineering. One of which is IUPUI (Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis), and as a whole, these schools don't have very good programs. If you want to get a degree in the US, you'd be best off by getting a mechanical engineering or aerospace engineering degree from a good engineering school, like Purdue or Michigan. If you want to get a degree in the UK or Europe, motorsports engineering would be a great idea.

kevinafrica > PatBateman 07/02/2014 at 18:35

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Thanks, good idea. I guess I have a misconception that everyone in motorsports is either rich or friends with someone who is rich and that a school like this is the only way to overcome this barrier. I can see that by talking to people in the industry I can hopefully find out that that's not the case and find out how they actually did it.

BoulderZ > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 18:42

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I can tell you from the science side (working in private sector, corporations), that overly-specialized degrees are a negative for us. A four year degree isn't supposed to be a niche, and having it too narrow unnecessarily paints you in to a corner. Stay with solid and established degrees (like Mechanical Engineering in your case), be adaptable, and if you want to add a specialty along the way, that's what minors, certificates, "with an emphasis in", senior thesis programs, honors programs, and grad school are for. In the US, I see a lot of these narrow degrees that really aren't very good. They probably are good marketing for schools to get customers they wouldn't otherwise have. "Major in racecars!" is more enticing than "Do the 4 semesters of Calculus and we'll see if you qualify for the Engineering program".

davedave1111 > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 19:08

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I don't think it's a complete misconception, but it's not an insurmountable barrier by any means. Bear in mind that motorsports is big, and there's a lot more than just F1 and Le Mans. Would you be happy being a mechanic/engineer for a small team racing in a minor series? Would you be willing to take that and work up from it?

It doesn't matter what the field is, if you have a few years experience doing really good work, you can find a good job.

Are you here in the UK, by the way? If you're actually applying to City, let me know and I'll see if I still know anyone there, get you some tips.

kevinafrica > BoulderZ 07/02/2014 at 19:14

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BoulderZ,

Sorry for being unclear. I was referring to the MSc in motorsports engineering. Does what you wrote hold for that as well?

Just based on my current job search though, for someone not fresh out of college, companies are looking for very specific skills and knowledge. I have degrees in both computer engineering and math, and as much as I would love to find a job geared to those majors, unless I want to start at college graduate pay, I find myself being evaluated for positions for my experience in the Navy.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 19:22

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I really wanted to get into the program at UNC Charlotte, but I couldn't afford it.

BoulderZ > kevinafrica 07/02/2014 at 20:07

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Ah, MSc, completely different ballgame! Niche/narrowing is a-okay (again, in my experience in earth sciences) there, Masters and PhD are where you take an area and own it. The whole point of those degrees is to get more specific and in-depth. MSc in motorsports could be excellent. With Bachelor degrees in CE and math, plus job experience (Navy), you should definitely not be settling for fresh-grad pay. If you want to go job-now, it might take "marketing" yourself a bit, but I'd bet you've got a great set of skills. Use the applications and interviews to sell your solution (you and your skills) to solve problems for the hiring company (experts in X, knowledge of Y, knows how to make Z work, knows how to do their stuff efficiently, boosting productivity and profit). I am very thankful I went for a Masters, though, especially as a chance to really get in to my area. That MS in motorsports eng could be great, if you can swing doing the student thing. How do you feel about Ramen noodles? :) Good luck!

kevinafrica > davedave1111 07/03/2014 at 00:09

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You're right, as in any industry, I should start as an engineer for a smaller team and expect to have to work up to the high profile teams. My major concern is whether or not a MSc in motorsports engineering would effectively lower the barriers of entry and give me a good chance to start in these smaller teams.

Thanks for your offer to help, I'll definitely keep you in mind when I follow through on this. I'm still in the US and this is all in the idea stage. I reason that studying in the UK is the best option since it's the heart of modern motorsports.

kevinafrica > BoulderZ 07/03/2014 at 00:24

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Thanks for you insight. Making potential employers understand that my experience and skills gained in the Navy would help solve their business problems is a challenge sometimes. The hurdles that I run into frequently is when a job position requires 5-7 years of experience in the specific discipline or proficiency in some specific technology. I frequently find myself feeling that a MSc would make clearing these hurdles less stressful.

I'm grateful that the GI bill is pretty generous. As much as I like the occasional packaged ramen, hopefully I won't have to eat it too much.

BoulderZ > kevinafrica 07/03/2014 at 11:04

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The 5-7 years thing is definitely a challenge. Employers are quite greedy right now in that they want people with senior level experience, but they're only willing to pay entry-level compensation. This seems to stem from the overarching idea that higher unemployment means it's an employer's market. The problem is that, for the most part, skilled and highly skilled labor is not experiencing high unemployment. The MSc will definitely clear a lot of that difficulty out of the way.

And, if you've got GI bill funding, that is definitely the right choice! My guideline that is a paid-for grad degree in a field you're interested in is always worth it. In the earth sciences, you can usually get it paid for, or nearly so, with RA/TA type positions. You won't be getting rich at the time, but you won't be going in to debt, either. Some fields, like Engineering, or especially medical/legal, almost never have RA/TA funding for grad students. GI Bill should make that a slam dunk for you.

The other nice thing about having independent funding like that, is you're much more free to choose a school ("brand" matters a bit more with grad school than undergrad), an adviser who's a good match (this is critical, I can't emphasize this enough), and to choose your own research/thesis topic(s) instead of just having to take whatever you can because of the funding source.

I had RA funding, graduated with my MS in 1998, and I was only able to try Ramen again last year. Turns out I like them again. Some of my colleagues still won't touch them. Reminds me of my Dad's feelings about C Rations. Oh! And happy pending "retirement", too!

davedave1111 > kevinafrica 07/04/2014 at 18:55

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To be honest, I'm maybe not the best person to ask about this - I never bothered about uni, but it's never held me back from making what I want to make. There are jobs I couldn't have done without doing some kind of degree, but I was never interested enough in them. I've a fair bit of experience in the real world, though.

"My major concern is whether or not a MSc in motorsports engineering would effectively lower the barriers of entry and give me a good chance to start in these smaller teams."

I think the right degree, high in the class on the right course, can open a lot of doors. But persistence, insistence, just going out there and making them give you the job you want, that opens doors as well. Combine the two, ideally.

Bear in mind that UK universities vary greatly in quality/reputation, but also that some specialist courses, like motorsport engineering, may have a very good course at some minor university. I'm really not sure where you want to go, but I'd bet there's one course that's head and shoulders above the rest, where a good grade pretty much guarantees you a job.

Another thing to be aware of is hidden costs. I expect you've already looked at tuition costs - we find them high for overseas students, but it's pretty cheap by US standards, I understand - but the living costs might catch you out. Just the difference between City and Brunel could be thousands of Pounds a year, because one is in the centre of town, and the other on the outskirts. It also depends on your partying priorities, and that kind of thing.